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By Patrick Lockerby | April 15th 2009 01:35 PM | 6 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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More The Chatter Box articles

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About Patrick Lockerby

Retired engineer, 60+ years young.
Computer builder and programmer.
Linguist specialising in language acquisition and computational linguistics.
Interested in every human endeavour except the... Full Bio

Part 1, which begins our examination of the question 'what is time?' can be viewed here.
Part 2 Some travels through time can be viewed  here.
Part 3 discussing language, sequence and order, can be viewed  here.
Part 4 a brief discussion of clocks, Steno, Foucault and Allais, can be viewed here.
Part 5 a time-free N-body heuristic, can be viewed here.

Note:
this blog on time is speculative, not established fact.

A Theory of Time Part 6 : Inertia, Information and The Arrow of Time

Thus far, I have tried to show that the whole notion of time is problematic, that it is not a requirement in a Galilean-Newtonian-Euclidean GNE model of the cosmos.  With one exception: the so-called arrow of time.  Any theory which purports to show what time is, or, as in the case of this occasional blog series, that time has no cosmic reality, must explain the arrow of time within the terms of that theory.  I shall attempt that here.

Inertia

For the purposes of these discussions about time, I define inertia as generalised inertia:

Generalised inertia is a property of mass and of energy such that no entity containing mass or energy can undergo any change of relative location, relative velocity or structural condition without the expenditure of energy.

All physical systems have inertia, and this is projected into all informational systems.  Information transfer is subject to inertia in all systems.  The Nobel Laureate Wilhelm Ostwald gave, in his Nobel lecture, the example of redundant features in biological organisms.  He refers to biological inertia, which might be viewed as a biological mechanism operating in opposition to evolution. 
It is contrary to the nature of organic evolution for such "rudimentary" organs or characteristics to be shed at once. On the contrary they have to be carried for quite a long time and are only discarded after long and difficult evolution.

Wilhelm Ostwald next refers that inertial mechanism to the theories formulated in science:
the new concepts in science which are invariably so formulated as to simulate as closely as possible the existing concepts and therefore from the time of their formation and the ideas then prevailing they absorb a greater or lesser number of "rudimentary" elements which it is the difficult and laborious task of subsequent research to eliminate. For the furtherance of science it is therefore extremely important to recognize the rudimentary elements of an existing concept which
are destined to disappear.

The inertia in concept formulation is a prime example of what I would call the fundamental inertia in the use of language as a means of advancement of knowledge.
...................................................................................................
Information.

An entity may be said to contain information if it is in some way unchanging or if it is subject to a regular,  non-random mode of change.

It is possible to view any entity as a packet of information or as a collection of information packets.  For example, a photon is a carrier of information about the chemical nature, gravitational strength and velocity of its source.  These three components are subject to various interpretations by observers, depending on the reference frame of choice.  This choice leads to controversies about interpretations.
...........................................................................................
The arrow of time

No information storage, duplication or communication device can ever be perfect.  Our sense of time as a line from past, through present and into the future derives directly from this principle.  Any memory effect, whether as human memory or as photonic or quantum memory is subject to degradation.  Our human ability to extrapolate is also subject to an informational degradation.  Memory of the past is on a surer footing than expectations of the future. 

Human memory, and therefore human history,  is an eclectic  mix of recorded information, interpolation and extrapolation.  Human future cannot by definition have a stored informational content.  It follows that there can be no interpolation.  Future events can only be extrapolated by the projection of a trend.  But that trend can only be obtained by comparing past with present, comparing an already decaying memory with the 'now'.  The future is but an imperfect shadow thrown by the light of memory onto the viewing screen of consciousness.

The information stored in any entity has a utility as 'truth' which decays gradually into a 'job done' list and rapidly into a 'to do' list, like a heavily skewed triangular waveform.

When we humans try to reconstruct the past, we can only do so from a perspective of current knowledge.  But inextricably entwined with that 'knowledge' is a vast store of interpolation and extrapolation created by previous reconstructors.  We communicate with our past through a mist of misconceptions.  We only rarely challenge these retro-acting preconceptions.  An idea from the dawn of history may be accepted as fact only because it was never challenged.  But once challenged, with proofs, it may come to be accepted.

In a social environment, memory is extended to tribe memory, but by the very act of extension is irredeemably degraded.
The communication between the past and the present is always polluted by interference from the noise of hindsight.

I am grateful to Laurence Arnold  for this perspective.

The arrow of time


Whenever information is stored or transmitted there is a chance for error.  In making a copy of some thing,  the information in one entity is transmitted to, and stored in, a second entity.  Every subsequent copy of a copy is degraded.  In the real world, perfect replication of any entity by means of the fundamental building blocks of nature is impossible.

In biology, the impossibility of perfect replication can add to the other mechanisms of genetic and epigenetic evolution.  In language, the degradation of information leads to words changing in sound, spelling and meaning as they are replicated between users.  In mechanical systems, I propose, the degradation of information leads to decay of oscillations and orbits, if these are viewed in terms of the exchange of information between physical entities.

If an entity has a robust means of storing information about its past attributes, then it is less affected by the degradation of information.  But it can never be exempt from that degradation.  And so, a living thing, having a robust 'memory' of its own structure (DNA) , can recover from damage.  But it cannot do so indefinitely.  A rubber ball can bounce repeatedly against a surface in a gravitational field , using its 3-dimensional molecular structure as a memory of previous location.  But information must be degraded, and the ball must come to a halt.

When an entity is subjected to a force, and the force overwhelms the memory capacity of the entity, then the entity is unable to respond elastically to the force.  The limited memory cannot store sufficient information to map the effect of the force on the entity.  Any effect on the entity is non-reversible.  The entity may even be shattered into smaller entities, none of which has a memory capacity sufficient even to cause it to recognise and attach itself to its historical neighbour.

That is the Humpty Dumpty effect of the degradation of information.

In the GNE information storage model, the degradation of information is the mechanism of the arrow of time.
..................................................
In the next part, I shall discuss the role of gravity in a time-free GNE information-storage model, and  discuss the gyroscope and Foucault pendulum in further detail.

Comments

Gerhard Adam's picture
"But information must be degraded, and the ball must come to a halt."

Not quite sure what you intend here, but the question is when you considered "degradation" are you referring to the "loss" of information?  or the "corruption" of information?

If "loss" ... what is lost and where does it go? 

If "corruption" then we're dealing with information gain or exchange and it's the original "order" that is upset (sort of like shuffling a deck of cards).  The number of cards remains the same, but the meaning or "information" about a particular order is "lost".

In a sense, when an electron emits a photon, it loses energy, which could also be interpreted as meaning that it loses information (it is no longer where it once was, doing what it did).  The photon then represents a basic piece of "information" that simply travels until it encounters something else to interact with and then conveys its "value" to whatever it interacts with.

If this "loss" of information (like in the electron example) reduces to a state of equilibrium, then it would follow that it is this basic "loss" which represents the concept of entropy and could (possibly) be interpreted to indicate the thermodyamic arrow of time?


logicman's picture
Gerhard: once again you overtake me.  :)

I intend to deal with information loss in terms of thermodynamics, yes.  But also in terms of information theory, noise and inertia.   If some energy is degraded, then the ratio of all such energy to degraded energy is changed.  In the extreme, if the degradation of information is irreversible, then the signal to noise ratio approaches 1 to infinity.  That is the fate of the cosmos if the 2nd law of thermodynamics is universally and eternally inviolate.

But so far, we have a GNE model with information and inertia replacing time.  In the heuristic I gave to show how an N-body system might be modelled as what I call a 'Wentork' model, I left out all discussion of the nature of gravity.  That is next on the menu.

Gerhard Adam's picture

I'm sensing that you're approaching this in a top-down fashion, while I'm tending to look at it from the bottom up.  Using a very loose computer analogy, the laws of physics, chemistry, etc. are sort of like instructions in a computer.  They perform specific functions but they have no purpose to achieve anything beyond their immediate operation.  These actions are taking on the bits (0's and 1's) which also have no meaning until they are placed in some context (representing either instructions or data).

Similarly if we go to fundamental (whatever that is) particles like photons or electrons as the carriers of information, they follow these "instructions" and form elements and molecules, interacting according to the rules that govern their existence.  As a result, we end up with an essentially random distribution of chemical compounds based on the probabilities of any given interaction taking place.

Humans, in discovering these laws, are able to take these instructions and intentionally construct compounds and obtain the behavior from these fundamental pieces of information that we desire.  So we can produce steel, plastic, or electricity by understanding how to manipulate these fundamental particles.

This is why I'm hung up on these basic particles as pieces of "information", because it helps me think of how the accumulation of such information can define why we see a particular arrow of time, although to these particles there wouldn't be any such direction.  In the same way that the execution of a sequence of instructions (within a computer) only has meaning to the program, individually there would be no time sense in the order of operations being performed.

The primary difficulty I'm having is that I can obviously envision a positive arrow of time, and zero time, but I'm at a loss to determine whether "backwards" has any real meaning.

Using the example earlier of an electron emitting a photon... I suppose one could consider that the electron has moved "backwards" by losing information and whatever interaction occurs would result in a moving "forward".  To us, they would both appear to be forward movements, since the emission of the photon would be more information to us (if we detected it ... we forced an interaction). 

Anyway ... you can see my quandry since the problem is how can a particle which can't experience time be said to travel "forwards" or "backwards" (it's obvious that this is an observer problem). 



logicman's picture
Gerhard: if time has no existence, there cannot possibly be a 'backwards' to it. 

If an entity has information about 'where or what it is supposed to be', then if displaced it can revert.  Imagine a pendulum at rest.  It carries no recoverable information about any prior state.  If the wire or lever is broken, the mass falls to the ground and stays there.  But if the pendulum is pulled to one side and released, it goes back to where it was, overshoots due to inertia, etc, until it returns to a state of rest.  At no stage is it required to travel 'back in time' to revert to its original location.  All motion in space, all repair, all reconstruction is forward in space.  The steady oscillation of a pendulum, as a video, can be reversed in a manner that is transparent to the human observer, but only because our human ability to predict is matched by the object seen regardless of the direction of the video.

Not so with a dropped egg.  In order to revert, it would need to recover lost information.  That information has been converted to noise.  There is by definition no information in noise.  Noise cannot be converted to signal.  An observer predicts the trajectory of the egg and is surprised to see the reverse occurrence.  The reverse video does not model the expected reality of events occurring forwards in space.

Not 'forwards in time'.  There is no such thing as time.  If a process consumes fuel, we can watch the level drop in a transparent fuel container.  The level drops.  This is a forward motion in space.  If I run to the end of the road, that is forward motion.  If I run back home, that too is a forward motion.  All motion in 3-d space is forward.  It is only by projecting our notion of reversion onto a predominately  1-dimensional aspect of space that we feel that there 'ought to be' a 'backwards' in time.

Time and inertia are the two sides of one and the same coin.  By focusing on time, we lose sight of inertia.  For example, in economics, by focusing on 'time-saving' we lose sight of inertial costs - the costs in energy of overcoming the inertias of nature so that we humans can indulge ourselves in the pretence that we have somehow cheated time.

Gerhard Adam's picture

Everything you're saying is true, but it is at the macroscopic level in that the items you're referring to exist only because of the information provided by the fundamental particles.  When an egg is dropped, the fundamental information isn't lost, but only it's arrangement. 

That's why I agree that for macroscopic objects it makes no sense to talk about traveling "backwards" in time since they are following the thermodynamic arrow of time as is everything else in the universe.

However, getting back to the fundamental particles.  Since they can experience no time, they also have no restriction in how they present in the macroscopic world.  Therefore, based on their behavior we may interpret it as "forward", "neutral", or "backwards" in time.  It is an interpretation and shouldn't be taken as a literal event since (as you've mentioned), at these levels time has no meaning.

Part of the reason for even considering this, is that if a particle can "travel" in either direction (either gaining or losing information), then it provides a potential interpretation of "action at a distance" since there may be "forward in time" and "backwards in time" components.  As a result we may observe more phenomenon than is actually occurring and we experience what would be considered the "collapse" of the wave function once an interaction (measurement) is forced since this fixes the arrow of time.


For example, the concept of wave-particle dualty ultimately makes no sense because it requires that we set the conditions during our experimental setup and whatever we elect to measure, that's how it will behave.  But if we consider something like electrons, their primary behavior seems to follow the lines of "particles" when we consider their chemical reactions, orbitals, etc.  Using my analogy, this would suggest that this role causes them to exchange information with their constituents and thereby fixes their behavior in time causing them to behave more like particles.  When they aren't being measured, we can set up an experiment where we can detect their wave-like properties, but this can only occur when there is no interaction with anything else (except each other). 


To be truthful, I have no idea what, if anything, any of this really means but it's making me think ...



logicman's picture
To be truthful, I have no idea what, if anything, any of this really means but it's making me think ...

gerhard: those words should be embossed in the purest gold on every thesis!  :)

I know I tend to drift around a lot, but it is entirely my intention to get back to the basics.

If we remember that quantum theory and relativity were built on the foundations of classical mechanics, then it helps to re-examine those foundations in the light of current knowledge to see how secure or insecure they are.  As a single instance, we teach and are taught that c is a limiting velocity for all things, including information transfer of any kind.  And yet Newton observed that if he corrected his calculations to show gravity travelling at the speed of light, the model failed!  Nobody has yet indisputably measured the speed of gravity.  How does a gravity gradient, a carrier of information, escape a black hole?  Does dark matter-energy exist, or do we not properly understand gravity?  It is an area of much controversy.
.................................................
I am trying to build a bottom-up foundational model - what do we really know, that we may build on it?
The model starts with the notions of difference and causality:
A <> B     -    A is not B
A >> B    -    A is the proximate cause of B

We, in effect, start with the notion of chains of causality as objects worthy of investigation.  If we take Galilean-Newtonian mechanics with Euclidean 3-d geometry, add in an information model of energy states, add inertia and gravity , then we have a model in which inertia explains differences in causal chain comparisons and  time is entirely irrelevant.

I am trying to build the model from the proton-electron-neutron level up to the cosmic level, 'warts and all'.  Anything that the model fails to explain will be the proper subject of quantum theorists and cosmologists.

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