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By Josh Witten | November 3rd 2009 04:43 PM | 8 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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About Josh Witten

100% of this the rugbyologist's revenue is donated to Doctors Without Borders (Medecins Sans Frontieres). A click on one of my articles is a click that helps bring high quality medical care to the... Full Bio

"On Bullshit" sounds a lot better in Latin, doesn't it. Harry Frankfurt has a very interesting take on intellectual bullshit* (not agricultural bullshit) and its relationship to lying.
It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the
truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction. A person who
lies is thereby responding to the truth, and he is to that extent
respectful of it. When an honest man speaks, he says only what he
believes to be true; and for the liar, it is correspondingly
indispensable that he considers his statements to be false. For the
bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side
of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts
at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except
insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with
what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe
reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit
his purpose.

-Harry Frankfurt, On Bullshit (link to full article)

I highly recommend the full piece for the full treatment of this topic.

*Frankfurt's term, not mine, for sensitive readers.
**Athletically appropriate, encouraging, butt slap to the inimitable Jack of Kent.


Comments

Jim Myres's picture
Josh

Thank you for this little pearl of wisdom.

I really needed to read this.  At our 45 HS reunion about a year or two ago we all gave our e-mail address to one of the guys, John Cunningham* -  little did I know I was getting onto an ultra rigt wing mailing list.  Most of the people who read and respond to the mailings appear to be mindless.  I tried to point out the errors by referring folks to Fact Check and web sites like that but they just don't care.  

John is not a bad or evil person, not even a liar, he just has an agenda and people are listening and believing.


* he is the brother of Mike Cunningham the Right Wing radio talk show host from Cincinnati

rholley's picture

HOC FODIO!



But there are so many other forms of deception, including self-deception.  What about people who live a Walter Mitty existence?

(Thurber is one of my favourite authors.)

jtwitten's picture
I believe self-deception falls outside of Frankfurt's primary analysis. To use Frankfurt's structure, though, one would separate the state of mind (i.e., the intent), the subjective awareness of fact, and the objective fact. Self-deception is a subset of truth telling. The self-deceived want to tell the truth, have subjective awareness of "facts",  but their subjective "facts" do not agree with the objective facts.

I'm assuming that FODO is an excellent but obscure rendering of FODIO? Bravo!


rholley's picture
Corrected, gratias te ago.  I thought that "fodere" went like "regere".

jtwitten's picture
Fourth conjugation verbs suck. I did see FODO referenced in an 19th century text as a poetic variant.

rholley's picture
In looking at the Frankfurt article, I particularly liked the quote from Fania Pascal:

I had my tonsils out and was in the Evelyn Nursing Home feeling sorry for myself. Wittgenstein called. I croaked: "I feel just like a dog that has been run over." He was disgusted: "You don’t know what a dog that has been run over feels like."

This leads me to the following extract from All Things Considered: Christmas by G.K.Chesterton:

Whether the turkey which Scrooge gave to Bob Cratchit had experienced a lovelier or more melancholy career than that of less attractive turkeys is a subject upon which I cannot even conjecture. But that Scrooge was better for giving the turkey and Cratchit happier for getting it I know as two facts, as I know that I have two feet What life and death may be to a turkey is not my business; but the soul of Scrooge and the body of Cratchit are my business.
. . . . .
The anti-Christmas humanitarian, in seeking to have a sympathy with a turkey which no man can have with a turkey, loses the sympathy he has already with the happiness of millions of the poor.
. . . . .
But whether by feeding him slowly and killing him quickly for the needs of my brethren, I have improved in his own solemn eyes his own strange and separate destiny, whether I have made him in the sight of God a slave or a martyr, or one whom the gods love and who die young — that is far more removed from my possibilities of knowledge than the most abstruse intricacies of mysticism or theology. A turkey is more occult and awful than all the angels and archangels. In so far as God has partly revealed to us an angelic world, he has partly told us what an angel means. But God has never told us what a turkey means. And if you go and stare at a live turkey for an hour or two, you will find by the end of it that the enigma has rather increased than diminished.

And for you all across the Pond, this applies to Thanksgiving as well!

Hank's picture
A friend of mine read this and was shocked that a rugby player did not know his Latin better.  
In Stercorem Tauri is invalid Latin, because Stercus is neuter and the accusative is the same as the nominative. De Stercore Tauri would be better.

FODIO, like rego, is third conjugation, though I well understand his sentiments about such verbs.

Now you know.   


jtwitten's picture
Your friend is in part correct. One, I have not done that much Latin translation since high school. Two, most of my practice is going Latin to English and not the reverse, which really blows for idioms. It does, however, inform the way I chose to reconstruct things. I also learned a lot of my Latin from poetry which plays fast and loose with the details, but wrings every drop out of the deeper connotations of words and grammatical structures. This approach was immensely useful when my brother and I did an on the fly translation of the Bayeux Tapestry to the approval of our crowd.

On FODERE, I typed "fourth" by accident, instead of "third". The sentiment still holds. Robert's error was assuming that the 1st person, sing, present form of FODERE (FODIO) mirrored REGERE (REGO).

On STERCUS, your friend is right on the form of the accusative is STERCUS (I'll change the title) due to the noun being third conjugation neuter. If I were to defend my mistake, which I am not, I would claim poetic license to change the noun's gender in order to emphasize the masculinity of the bull.

I do, however, defend using the preposition IN with the accusative. This form indicates that the topic is being discussed. We are discussing its nature. It is receiving the action of the discussion. DE + ablative implies that the discussion is emitting from that object, as in DE GUSTIBUS NON EST DISPUTADUM (there is no disputing about taste). The non-existent disputation is not about the nature of taste itself, but about how the use of individual tastes alters the individual's perception of the item under discussion. If Frankfurt's article was on how "bullshit" is used rhetorically, as opposed to exploring its defintion and nature, then I would have favored DE.

As STERCUS not only means manure, but has derogatory implications, specifying the animal emitting the manure TAURI is probably superfluous. I thought, however, it would provide an anchor for those without any Latin. My preferred form would have been IN STERCUS.

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