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By T. Ryan Gregory | December 31st 2008 06:07 PM | 6 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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About T. Ryan Gregory

I am an evolutionary biologist specializing in genome size evolution at the University of Guelph in Guelph, Ontario, Canada. Be sure to visit Evolver Zone


... Full Bio

Nature recently provided a list of "15 evolutionary gems".

...the document summarizes 15 lines of evidence from papers published in Nature over the past 10 years. The evidence is drawn from the fossil record, from studies of natural and artificial habitats, and from research on molecular biological processes.

In a year in which Darwin is being celebrated amid uncertainty and hostility about his ideas among citizens, being aware of the cumulatively incontrovertible evidence for those ideas is all the more important. We trust that this document will help.

Comments

jtwitten's picture
Aren't we trying to hard?  We are right.  We've won.  But, no amount of evidence is going to convince people who don'are unwilling to be convinced.  Falconer and MacKay (Introduction to Population Genetics, 4th Ed 1996) site some 100-150 papers that show evidence of natural selection.   The evidence is there.

It is time for us to start acting like winners.

rholley's picture
It is time for us to start acting like winners.

The term “Carpetbaggers” springs to mind!

Hank's picture
Some of the problem is that the position of the bulk of science (and scientists) has been conscripted by a loud militant fringe that truly hates religion - science is just another weapon in that culture war.   When religious people fight back it then drags in more moderate science types.  Obviously religious people have their own militants as well.

When questions are framed in a way that are obvious, 'have we evolved?'  very few religious people say no.   But 'do you believe in evolution?' gets only 60% yes, because they want to answer with more than yes or no.

The debate over evolution has long been over but people are debating the origin of life and confusing it with evolution.   There can be no evidence for a true 'source' of life so expecting religious people to have faith in science instead of faith in religion is ironic.

Gerhard Adam's picture

"When religious people fight back it then drags in more moderate science types."

I think you're being too kind.  Religion has been at this "war" for centuries, long before science was even a player.  Every facet of the worldview was subject to religious approval and existed in political tension with whatever rulers (or government) were in place.


The problem is that religion doesn't lend itself to discussion or debate.  Virtually everything is premised on the idea that the information is infallable and therefore beyond questioning.  While I don't have a problem with people having whatever beliefs suit their fancy or help them get through life, I have a serious problem with the notion that such ideas should be given credence simply because someone believes them.  This is where it enters the public policy debate and becomes a part of the argument you've mentioned.


I think your comment is also important in distinguishing between "religious people" and "religion".  There is no question that an individual can hold whatever beliefs they like.  When those beliefs become organized, they become political and deserve to be challenged.  So the problem in discussing evolution, isn't whether an individual believes in it or not.  In fact, belief should have nothing to do with it.  However, when enough people want to use their belief to force political alternatives, it moves well beyond the simple definition of "religion".

While there are certainly people that "hate" the opposing side, let's be clear about something else.  A belief is one thing, but a religion is an organized political machine and doesn't deserve any special courtesies to grant it more power.   I have never seen evidence that any religion, given an opportunity won't immediately step in to fill the political void or gather power for itself.  I believe they should be accorded the same level of respect and trust we bestow on our politicians, because that is ultimately what they are.



Hank's picture
You make fine points but I am sticking specifically with the evolution part and not global and historical religion v science.    I think evolution specifically is more of a DMZ than scientists and religious people on the militant edges think it is.   Like in Korea, occasionally someone will fire bullets at each other but there isn't the huge open war some science sites make it out to be in order to drum up page views.    We do pretty well without engaging in religon bashing because it 'sells' to an audience.    

I was basically reaffirming Josh's point - and acting like a winner means not bothering to respond to various claims that some nobody has overturned evolution.    It draws attention to and legitimizes them.   If you're a black belt in karate you don't fight every white belt that comes into the school.

Gerhard Adam's picture
You're right.  I suspect that sometimes it is simply a matter of being tired of individuals advancing arguments that are so plainly fantastic, especially when they haven't bothered to examine the most cursory scientific materials. 

I'm probably overstating the point, but it is frustrating to see how many people would willingly return to the dark ages.

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