God created men,womyn, and children with the ability to comprehend and reflect on its surroundings and environment. Subsequently, God in the Qur'an (the Last Testament) informs us that God is NOT ONLY the creator & sustainer of all the worlds but also, that God is the Evolver (al-Bari).

as a retired high school biology teacher I am not surprised

What's worse is that they can't see any connection between their goals of a Christian government and the Islamic countries in the Middle East. Personally I don't care whether I'm in jail for violating some provision of the Koran or Bible ... it's still jail and equally stupid.

- - - - - -
don't buy World of Warcraft Gold, make'em....

I'm sorry but who are you talking about when you "say start listening in science class instead of telling the teacher he or she is wrong about everything every five minutes."? I live in Ireland and it has a very high belief in Catholicism and I have never, ever experienced something like that. I am a scientific man, but also a religious man. I laughed at this article, and I agree, this museum and the explanations it gives are incredibly stupid and just plain comical. I believe in science AND religion. I take the story of Noah's Ark as just that, a story, however I also believe that it is based on something that actually happened. I am sick of the religious and scientific communities clashing, as I believe there is common ground in both. Are parallel universes not just as hard-to-believe as heaven? Is it not also hard to believe that humans are the only creatures on Earth who can talk about things such as this, who can argue about things such as this and who can think in ways such as this?

Exactly... the Bible (or at least the first few books) are a collection of verbal histories of the Hebrew people, finally written down generations after the actually events took place. The twelve plagues have been PROVEN possible to happen by SCIENCE... that it's a likely course of events. Noah's Ark is a similar story to Gilgamesh... there was definitely a huge flood in that part of the world, and there were very few survivors (Black Sea could have flooded during this time, or Ocean Meteor Strikes are possible scenarios).

Believe what you want, but please don't misunderstand the first few chapters of the Bible... that's exactly what causes this animosity between (ignorant) creationists and (ignorant and angry) atheists.

why is it that creationists are just ignorant but atheists are ignorant and angry? to be perfectly honest, i have never really met a religious person who wasn't angry at me for being an atheist. somehow the fact that i don't share the same beliefs means that i am attacking their religion. i am perfectly happy to accept that millions of people believe in some version of an unseen deity who acts as a loving parent. why can't all those millions of people be happy that i think we live and die here on earth and that's that? please, if we are expected to show respect for your beliefs, give us a little respect as well. it's comments like this that lead to us having such a bad reputation.

totally agree.

i never understand why they cant just accept there are people different from them and that believe differently than they do. its not like we are forcing them to denounce their god or anything or tell them not to believe in god. we are just stating the simple fact that we do not share their beliefs, very simple.

what happened to all men (and women of course) were created equal?

i have read stories of people losing their jobs, their homes, being basically forced to move out of a town cause they didnt believe in god. what is with that, are you people really that intolerant of people different from you in that regard that you must shun them away. are you scared those people will infect your belief or that maybe their questions will cause you to lose some of that blind faith you love so dearly. why cant people let and let live and move on with life. its too short to be so angry with people over stupid reasons like this. just accept one another.

i have read stories of people losing their jobs, their homes, being basically forced to move out of a town cause they didnt believe in god.

I doubt you would want to be tarred with the brush of every action done by people who claimed to believe in evolution? Those are not true Christians.

i never understand why they cant just accept there are people different from them and that believe differently than they do.

I can never understand those fireman, running into burning buildings getting people out who are high on heroin. Hey, in their oblivious state, they don't want to get out. I just can't understand why the fireman can't just accept there are people different from them and that believe differently than they do.

I would be an inhuman monster if I truly believed that those who don't follow God are going to spend an eternity in hell, but yet didn't plead earnestly with them to follow God.

people in their oblivious state such as on drugs are not capable of judging whats best for them. people who are sober and clean of drugs are capable of judging whats best for them.
firemen go into burning buildings to rescue heroin addicts cause its their job they are not the ones to judge how one lives their lives. apparently you christians seem to think you are the ones to judge how people live their lives and must convert people aka "save them". however if one is not on drugs and perfectly capable of making their own choices about their own lives what business is it of yours to force your will and opinions on somoene who doesnt want to hear them.

nice how you just compared people who dont believe in the same things as you to heroin addicts btw. shows real tolerance on your part. congrats

Modern thought has perverted the meaning of the word tolerance. I am a tolerant person: I don't chop the heads off of people that disagree with me. That's tolerance. My ancestors were the recipients of intolerance. They were burned at the stake, drowned, put on the rack, etc. That's intolerance. Disagreeing with you and telling you the truth is not intolerance.

The god of this world has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. As a result, they don't see the light of the Good News about Christ's glory. It is Christ who is God's image.
(2 Corinthians 4:4 GW)

"Disagreeing with you and telling you the truth is not intolerance."
you cant say that what you believe is the truth until it has been proven. it has not been proven til God himself comes down the the heavens and shows himself.

In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.
(John 1:1, 14 GW)

Only the very ignorant deny the historicity of Jesus. There are secular accounts of His miracles.

He will show Himself again, but then it will be too late:

The Son of Man will come again just as lightning flashes from east to west. "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. All the people on earth will cry in agony when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky with power and great glory. He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen.
(Matthew 24:27, 30-31 GW)

quoting the fairy tale doesnt really prove anything. also no one denies that a Jesus existed. just dont believe him as being the son of God.

This is why I speak to them this way. They see, but they're blind. They hear, but they don't listen. They don't even try to understand. So they make Isaiah's prophecy come true: 'You will hear clearly but never understand. You will see clearly but never comprehend. These people have become close-minded and hard of hearing. They have shut their eyes so that their eyes never see. Their ears never hear. Their minds never understand. And they never return to me for healing!'
(Matthew 13:13-15 GW)

wow! i had no idea that my request to not be called angry would lead to such a heated debate. i feel it necessary that i say something! it was meant to be an aside, not to become a long conversation. but since it has...
i understand 100%, having grown up in a religious household, all of the 'historicity' that you quote, hans. i know it backwards and forwards. i simply don't believe it. the same way that i believe that santa clause is a story for children, i believe that god is a story (though a bit too scary and obscene for me to tell my children). the same way that i believe the pope is not infallible, i believe that theistic texts are not infallible. also, having studied literature in depth, i recognize that there are a plethera of comman literary devices used in theistic texts (hyperbole, for example). the books were written by men, they were conceived by men, and they are studied and believed by men. the fact that there is no book that i have chosen to live my life by, the fact that i feel that there is a stronger case for the idea of evolution than creationism, and the fact that i believe that we as individuals are responsible and accountable for how we live our lives has nothing whatever to do with you.
to be perfectly honest, you sticking your nose in my business is really quite annoying. i have studied and searched and come to my own conclusions. it is not something that happened by chance, it is the end product of years of research. i have never asked anyone to follow me, i have never suggested that i am right and everyone else is wrong. i simply believe what i believe. i would ask that you, all of you, mind your own business. we, as atheists, don't want to live our lives the way you do. we have chosen a different path. if we find out later that we were wrong, so be it. it is the conscious choice that we have made. the same is true for you. i am not a heroin addict, i am not so far out of my mind that i have no idea what i'm talking about. i have looked at the evidence placed before me and i have decided that god does not exist.

on a separate note, i don't want your tolerance. i am not doing anything that requires your tolerance. i find the condescension and ego with which you make such a statement offensive. what i do expect, however, is your respect.

Hey Maggie

I just wanna say that I totally (emphasis on totally) respect your views and that it’s a pity that some Christians are intolerant towards your beliefs. I can’t tell you how much it infuriates me when people force their beliefs on others and make them feel inferior because of that.

I regard myself as a Christian and Jesus is not just a historical figure to me. Though, I also embrace the wonder of science and it leaves me in awe of creation.

To me it’s always ironic when Christians take the moral high ground and judge others, since Jesus’ harshest words were against the 'so-called' holy people who pretended to be better than others.

Again, I get hot under the collar when other Christians pretend to know everything about everything, and when they treat the Bible as a scientific book. I won’t even go there since this book has spiritual significance to me. And if others don’t believe that, it’s 'ok'! You don’t need to feel threatened by it.

And you're totally missing out on meeting real cool people who coincidently don’t share your beliefs.

Just want to clarify. When I say "You don’t need to feel threatened by it." and "you're totally missing out on meeting real cool people who coincidently don’t share your beliefs", i refer to those religious people who use their believes as a bat to hit others over the head with.

thank you. :) you made my day, philip.

Part of the Bible MAY be true. But most of it is lies. Even if you believe all these fairy tales, please make sure your children learn and understand science. Well educated citizens lead to peace on earth.

Sanskrit,

I think you'd have a real problem demonstrating that most of the Bible is lies.

Answers in Genesis doesn't follow Genesis. Instead they follow the visions of Ellen G. White. Before the conservative evangelical church adopted White's visions in the 1960's, christianity almost universally understood Genesis to be discussing a very old earth.

That is what the Bible teaches. Genesis 2:3 claims that the God's seventh day of rest after creation was finished was on-going. Hebrews 4 claimed that God's rest had still not ended. Genesis 2:4 claims that the 6 days of creation are many generations long. They didn't have any big numbers.

Modern geology was invented primarily to answer the question, "Precisely how old?" As the answer became millions and even billions of years, none of the church men in the 1600, 1700, and 1800's saw any problem or contradiction with the Bible.

You'll have trouble finding many lies in the Bible. The Bible is far more accurate than you imagine. Unfortunately, a lot of the people who claim to follow the Bible, follow something else.

JL

How do you know no church men in the 1600, 1700, and 1800's saw any contradiction with the bible? Most likely, there were some atheists out there and were silent about it or were silenced (ahh, the good ol days of drawing and quartering). fun stuff

Anon,

People who don't write down what they believe are forgotten. Those who wrote, and who's writings survived, I have described them accurately.

JL

SO I guess the writing of Thomas Paine (doubting Thomas) dont count, one of the founding fathers of our nation that was clearly not a christian and thought the bible was full of fairy tales.

Fascinating idea, JL:

"Answers in Genesis doesn't follow Genesis. Instead they follow the visions of Ellen G. White. Before the conservative evangelical church adopted White's visions in the 1960's, christianity almost universally understood Genesis to be discussing a very old earth."

This is utterly disconnected with reality. Perhaps this is tongue in cheek but for the benefit of all, Mrs. White died, I believe around 1915. Her ideas have never been adopted by the "evangelical church" generally, though they do form a basis of the Seventh Day Adventist groups.

The 1960's connection to modern creation science is the 1961 publication of "The Genesis Flood" by Henry M. Morris and John C. Whitcomb. But creationists have opposed evolution in various forms from the time of St. Paul (Acts. 17), and especially since Erasmus Darwin advocated it in the late 1700s.

This statement is also inaccurate, JL:

"Modern geology was invented primarily to answer the question, "Precisely how old?" As the answer became millions and even billions of years, none of the church men in the 1600, 1700, and 1800's saw any problem or contradiction with the Bible."

James Hutton (most famous early anti-creation geologist) wrote in the late 1700s that he was studying the earth to find ways to undermine the Bible. When John Wesley (d. 1791) was asked in a letter about the longer ages Hutton proposed, he wrote back "we cannot give up the fall." That, BTW, is oppostion to the steady state earth which developed gradually over a long time AND implicit opposition to evolution which believes death is a part of the mechanism of "creation" rather than (as the Bible says) death being a consequence of sin.

Lots is being and has been written and accomplished in science and theology by creationists. Edward Blyth, a creationist, was one of several who wrote about natural selection prior to Darwin's publication of his bright idea of evolution. Natural selection as observed does not conflict with Biblical creation. Please don't confuse it with evolution in the most usual sense: common ancestry of all living things.

BTW, it takes a great deal of faith to believe that an ant and I have a common ancestor whose descendents became each of us.

Please help me understand any evidence that supports that!

No, evolution (common ancestry) is not science. It's not a theory. It has no hypotheses demonstrated by observations which support it which do not also support creation in six regular days a few thousand years ago.

How in the world did evolution move from Darwin's bright idea to supporting evidence observed by testing hypotheses to well supported scientific theory. It hasn't happened. It's really a bright idea that is now less bright. It seems to me that it was a victory of publicity or propaganda led by Huxley and others.

More accurately, evolution is a model that strings together observations into a framework that itself is not supported. Evolution is a faith, accepted by faith, fiat or default.

I would certainly agree, JL, that there are no lies in the Bible, except those where a person in a narrative tells a lie.

Part of Evolution may be true, but most of it, at best, could never be proven in many lifetimes, which leads me to wonder why it is called a scientific theory and considered to be fact. It has been estimated by scientists, I think Dr David Berlinski for one, that about 50,000 morphing changes would have to take place in an animal to make them go from a land animal to a sea animal. Think about it, that is amazing. I think believing in evolution takes a whole lot more faith than believing that everything in this amazing universe was created by God. Just think abour our DNA and how complicated it is. Scientists work so hard to understand all of the crazy stuff in our world and aren't even close to cracking half of the answers. Doesn't that point to a divine creator? Believe what you will, but when it comes down to it, I will be teaching my kids that God Himself created them to be unique human beings who can do good things in this amazing world we live in. You can teach your kids what you want and I won't think any less of you.

just because you or anyone dont fully understand how things were made yet doesnt default to a divine being creating it. just means we dont know yet and i do think that theory of evolution is closer to explaining how things happened even if it doesnt have all the answers YET. key word being yet. scientists never claimed to have all the answers, but creationists seem to think they have all the answers.

i refer back to native americans and greeks and romans thinking that there was some god responsible for lightning or volcanic eruptions or whatever other natural happening. now we have figured out why those things happen, what leads up to them etc. they also thought if they did certain things that they would be making those gods happy and the volcanos wouldnterupt or lightning wouldnt strike or rivers wouldnt flood etc as well. some sacrificed innocent people cause of that belief even. would you sacrifice some innocent person to make your god happy in this day and age or are you smart enough to know that there are other causes for things in life and that killing an innocent person wont stop that from happening?

"It has been estimated by scientists, I think Dr David Berlinski for one, that about 50,000 morphing changes would have to take place in an animal to make them go from a land animal to a sea animal. Think about it, that is amazing."
Yes it is amazing. It's also more plausable than any argument laid forth in this blog in favor of creation. Lets take a look.
The Dr. would be reffering to the simple miniscule changes that need to occur. For the sake of this discusion lets give alot of room for adjustment and say each change 5 generations. Each generation lived 1 year as fish and as land creatures 10 years. Over the 50,000 cycle it averages out to 5 years for each generation, 5 generations = 25 years roughly. So theres a starting point. 25 years each morph.
Let's make it more interesting and double it to 50 years for a single morph.
Now lets multiply the years against the number of changes needed.
50*50,000= 2,500,000
Now if I where to say it only took 2.5 to 3 million years for a land creature to adapt back to live in water you would say I was way too generous with that amount of time.
But according to the aurgument put for 50,000 morphing changes sounds like alot.
Stop letting others think for you. It's embarrasing to you and your friends.
Evolution is FACT not theory.
Oh, one more thing... Bite my balls