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By Nicholas Horton | July 28th 2009 03:37 PM | 6 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
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About Nicholas Horton

I'm a graduate student in mathematics at Portland State University. My areas of study are Quantum Game theory and Mathematical Biology with a focus in Evolution.

Outside of Math, my science interests... Full Bio

On the Big Ideas Blog there is a post about the different types of reasoning, Analytic vs. Synthetic, and their relevance to the existence or non-existence of God.  But, my favorite passage was one concerning we mathematicians:
The requirement of reasonableness might be illustrated as follows. Imagine Tom, John and Jane live in a country run entirely by mathematicians. Their whole culture is built on analytic thinking — only water-tight logical proofs are considered to have any real force. Well, then it would hardly matter how careless Tom had been in disguising the murder, since any number of outlandish explanations for his innocence might be put forward. If you require that Tom is innocent until analytically proven guilty then he’ll get off scot-free, as will every other criminal. This is why mathematicians are rarely given anything important to do.

(Emphasis mine).  Yep, we'll just stick to proofs and blogging!

God, or just some dude with a beard and a good muscular build?




Comments

Gerhard Adam's picture
There are certainly some interesting points to consider in that discussion, but it should be clear that one can never prove a supernatural event, since it would require knowing ALL the laws of nature to determine which one couldn't apply.

Similarly, the idea of a supernatural being is a bit tough to deal with because the traditional definitions of omniscience and power create logical contradictions that can never be true (such as can god create a rock so large he can't lift it).  In most cases, people only assume that a divine being isn't subject to his own rules).

What really seems interesting, is that all the explanations seem to focus on human-oriented values and objectives, so the most compelling argument against a divine being is that he couldn't be that petty and trivial.  Therefore if the descriptions are wrong, then there's little point in postulating something for which even the basics are erroneous.


Nicholas Horton's picture
I often wonder if these questions come up because of the ways in which we DEFINE god in the first place.  I've had discussions with Christians who are adamant that the "loving" aspect of God is what is important, not his creative ability.  That is, if he created man and the universe, but was as cruel as the devil, then they would not consider him God proper, and certainly wouldn't worship him.  I've found this particularly true among more liberal Christians who are inclined to accept the theory of evolution as consistent with their beliefs. 

With a definition like that, the arguments about his apparent triviality and pettiness are strong indeed. 

But, if we define god simply as a possible supernatural creator of the universe (and more specifically human beings), then it doesn't matter if he takes a moral (by human standards) role in our lives, per se.  He can kill us off, or let us die in droves, and it doesn't impact his designation as God the Creator.   This leaves open the window for the "God has a higher plan" retort so often used to explain why the Holocaust could have happened.

Gerhard Adam's picture
Doesn't the fact that we are defining anything, already strongly suggest that a divine being is a property of our own imagination, rather than an independently existing entity?

Gary Herstein's picture

We defined "electron;" that, by itself, does not mean electrons are merely imaginary. The point of the definition is (if it is an adequate definition) to correspond to the world in some meaningful &/or robust fashion.



Gerhard Adam's picture
You're correct, of course.  I really meant my comment to deal with a definition that wasn't prompted by some physical phenomenon for which we desired or needed an explanation.  In other words, if we are simply defining something just to have a definition without any "real-world" phenomenon to relate it to, then it would suggest to me that we are dealing with imagination rather than "fact".

Gary Herstein's picture
Wow, that is a passage I'd use in my Critical Thinking class; it will take more text to list the fallacies than went into the original passage. Ignoratio Elenchi and Weak Analogy for beginners; Strawman representation of mathematical and analytical thinking; a kind of Slippery Slope fallacy there also. (Edited for typo.)

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