Track your comments!
[x]


When you register, comments on your articles and replies to your comments appear here. Register Now!

Sign in to your account
[x]

Not a Scientific Blogging member yet?

Register Now for a Free Scientificblogging.com Account

  • Customize your profile with pictures, banner, a blogroll and more.
  • Leave comments on articles, add other members to your friend lists, chat with people on the site.
  • Write blog posts that can be seen by hundreds of thousands of readers.

It's free and it only takes a minute!

Already a Scientific Blogging member?

Sign In Now

Fake Banner
By Alan Gillis | September 1st 2008 03:38 PM | 7 comments | Print | E-mail | Track Comments
About Alan

I'm a journalist, photographer, and novelist in cottage country, Muskoka Canada. Science is such a big issue in our lives, I feel obliged to investigate...

View Alan's Profile

LHC Kritiks in Switzerland, Germany and Austria survived the first ruling on their case by the European Court for Human Rights, August 29th. So did CERN's Large Hadron Collider, which will go ahead while the court action continues. A stunningly quick decision by the ECHR only 3 days after the complaint was filed against CERN and its 20 member countries from the EC denies any Interim Measures that would have forced CERN to suspend operations of the LHC.

Soon to be the world's most powerful atom smasher and the biggest and most costly science experiment ever, the $10 billion LHC straddles the borders of Switzerland and France, near Geneva. CERN, the giant European nuclear physics lab, has completed the 17 mile underground construction of the ring accelerator and is now in the first stages of start-up. It's goal is to unlock the secrets of the early Universe, through unparalled high energy collisions of hadrons, protons at first and then heavy lead ions. Critics believe that the LHC could pose enormous dangers to the planet.


Large Hadron Collider, near Geneva.  ATLAS detector near Geneva Airport, Meyrin, within SPS pre-accelerator ring; clockwise, ALICE detector near St-Genis; CMS detector near Cessy; and LHCb detector near Ferney. Courtesy CERN 2008

Markus Goritschnig, a spokesman for LHC Kritiks said, "This quick decision of the court to dismiss the claim for Interim Measures is not a negative sign as such. The Court is studying the whole appeal in detail now. Only the claim for Interim Measures was rejected, not the appeal itself." The Court gave no reasons for dismissing the preliminary injuction to stop LHC operations.

"The case before the European Court of Human Rights," said Dr James Gillies, chief spokesman for CERN, commenting on the Court case in the Telegraph, "contains the same arguments that we have seen before and we have answered these in extensive safety reports."

All 12 points in the LHC Kritiks arguments are being considered by the ECHR. Other safety hazards have been studied in the latest CERN LHC Safety Assessment Group report, including other theoretical objects and dangers that might be produced at the LHC like micro black holes. MBH is the main focus in the Court suit. CERN concludes there is no risk.

LHC Kritiks strongly disagree on the level of risk and CERN's claim that they have addressed it. "In the complaint", said Markus Goritschnig, "we took all the safety arguments into consideration that were given by CERN in their standard reactions to the global risk. They will have to produce a better LSAG report."

There are three principal signatories to the suit, one each from Switzerland, Germany and Austria. In the suit Dr Otto E. Rössler's theories on mBH figure prominently, though he is not involved with the court challenge. In answer to Dr James Gillies, he told me that CERN still has not disproved his general relativistic theory on mBH or proved that neutron stars are immune to mBH because mBH don't exist. Dr Rössler said these, the most dense stars, are not attacked by mBH because they are protected by their own superfluidity, so mBH pass through them as there is no friction. MBH can exist in space, he insists. Dr Rössler said, "This unproven argument does not impart any security onto earth as CERN alleges."

Dr Rössler added that there is further confirmation of his theory that mBH do not evaporate, contrary to what Professor Stephen Hawking states, through his Hawking radiation theory. "I just learned about an earlier proof of non-evaporation given by Vladimir Belinski, Institute des Hautes Etudes Scientifiques at Bures-sur-Yvette, France, in Physics Letters A. (Vol 209, p 13)

The authors of the Euro suit have included a new study on the mBH question, not considered in the LSAG report as both are recent documents. The paper by Dr Rainer Plaga, a German physicist, that supports Dr Rössler on possible mBH production and dangers, uses quantum physics arguments as CERN does. Markus Goritschnig thinks that Dr Plaga's work is a compelling contribution to the argument for dangerous mBH. "Plaga says the first consequence of producing black holes in lower dimensions would be a disastrous explosion. Then the semi-stable black hole would intensively radiate, consuming 17,000T of material each year. It would be unremovable, undestroyable, and surely endanger the planet as a whole."

Dr Rössler is due to meet with the Swiss President, Pascal Couchepin, this fall on LHC safety issues. According to a spokeswoman for the ECHR, "The proceedings before the Strasbourg Court are expected to take several years."

References:

Chown, Markus. New Scientist, "Trouble on the horizon for evaporating black holes", Feb 10, 1996, http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14920163.000-trouble-on-the-horizon-for-evaporating-black-holes.html

Dambeck, Holger. SpiegalOnline, "Gericht weist Eilantrag gegen Superbeschleuniger ab", August 29, 2008, http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/0,1518,575275,00.html

Ellis, Jonathan et al. CERN LSAG, "Review of the Safety of LHC Collisions", Undated (from 2008), http://lsag.web.cern.ch/lsag/LSAG-Report.pdf

Ellis, Jonathan et al. CERN LSAG, "Review of the Safety of LHC Collisions Addendum on strangelets", June 20, 2008, http://lsag.web.cern.ch/lsag/LSAG-Report_add.pdf

Gillis, Alan. Big Science Gambles, "Superfluids, BECs And Bosenovas: The Ultimate Experiment", July 2, 2008, http://bigsciencenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/superfluids-becs-and-bosenovas-ultimate.html

Gray, Richard. Telegraph, "Legal bid to stop CERN atom smasher from 'destroying the world'", Aug 31, 2008 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/2650665/Legal-bid-to-stop-CERN-atom-smasher-from-destroying-the-world.html

LHC Kritik, ECHR Court Documents, http://lhc-concern.info/

Plaga, Rainer. ArXiv, "On the potential catastrophic risk from metastable quantum-black holes produced at particle colliders", preprint submitted to Elsevier, Aug 10, 2008, http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0808/0808.1415v1.pdf


Comments

PLEASE STOP THIS SUICIDE!

To carry on with an experiment, even if it has a miniscule chance of creating a BLACK HOLE IS SUICIDE.
Even if there is only a trillion's chance of creating a black hole , and supporters of this project, say there is,
THEN FOR GOD'S SAKE , STOP!!!DO NOT GO ANY FURTHER !..
IF YOU WISH TO COMMIT SUICIDE , THEN DO SO IN OTHER WAYS , BUT DO NOT INCLUDE THE REST OF THE HUMAN RACE.
PLEASE STOP WE BEG YOU WITH ALL OUR HEARTS .
STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! STOP !!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT JUMP BLINDLY OVER A CLIFF OF NO RETURN !.
NO ONE WILLBE ABLE TO LEARN FROM THIS ONE MISTAKE IF THERE IS NO ONE LEFT.
THIS IS A POINT OF NO RETURN. YOU WILL HAVE KILLED THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE .
THE SCIENTISTS BACKING THIS EXPERIMENT SEEM TO BE ADDICTED TO TAKE CHANCES AND GET FAME . THE BACKERS WHO HAVE INVESTED IN CERN ARE SO GREEDY TO GET THEIR MONEY BACK , EVEN IF IT KILLS THEM AND ALL LIVING THINGS ON EARTH.

A BLACK HOLE , ONCE ESTABLISHED , NO MATER HOW SMALL , WILL CONTINUE TO GROW AND NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING ON THIS EARTH AND BEYOND , WILL EVER BE ABLE TO STOP IT.
YOU WILL ALSO BE KILLING YOUR OWN FAMILY , CHILDREN AND GRAND CHILDREN.
GOD HELP YOU !!!!! MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION AND STOP.

There are no "backers" who have "invested" in CERN. CERN is a international research lab backed entirely by governments. Also there is no way to "get [your] money back" from CERN. CERN is a non-profit body.

Also, it is simply not true that "a black hole, once established, no mater [sic!] how small, will continue to grow". In fact, a black hole of small enough mass will decay via Hawking radiation almost immediately, and certainly much faster than it could accrete matter in order to grow. Hollywood movies do not teach accurate science, my friend!

Finally, if the LHC could create black holes, then so could the most energetic cosmic rays (which have much higher energies than the LHC can reach). In fact, the bombardment of earth with high-energy cosmic rays over all of earth's history amounts to about 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 LHC experiments. And the earth is still here.

Also, SCREAMING never made anybody look particularly clever.

But what if there is no Hawking radiation? It is a theory. Has not been observed and might be flawed for reasons we do not know - not the known unknown, but the unknown unknown. What if there is no radiation and it really is possible for matter to be infinitely pressed together just like the opposite of infinity going outwards.

We have to STOP the CERN before it's too late. NOBODY can give us any warranty about this experiment. Nothing is saving...the risk is to high but there think only in how to make more money and profit but not in humans life. I'm sure the end of the world will come when somebody push the start bottom...Luck to everybody and enjoy our last month with your Family & Friends. Only humans can be so arrogant and think they can control without risk forces and energies not seen for millions of years. Claim to be God and this leads to total destruction.

Hank's picture
With the issues some have tried to create hysteria about, two other labs produce energy more likely to create problems, if it could happen at all.    The issue is not science, it's the unwillingness of scientists to engage in certainties the way politicians and talking head reporters do.    The change of some black hole causing a problem is less than the chance of LHC producing pink elephants but physicists are being polite thinking people out in the world understand that infinity is a big number, so anything is possible.  

Taking physics advice from one guy who calls himself 'doctor', but it's a Juris Doctorate law degree, and one who is an amateur science fiction writer is not very smart.

Add a comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <sup> <sub> <a> <em> <strong> <center> <cite> <code> <TH><ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <img> <br> <p> <blockquote> <strike> <object> <param> <embed> <del> <pre> <b> <i> <table> <tbody> <div> <tr> <td> <h1> <h2> <h3> <h4> <h5> <h6> <hr> <iframe>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
CAPTCHA
If you register, you will never be bothered to prove you are human again. And you get a real editor toolbar to use instead of this HTML thing that wards off spam bots.